Talk:Adrian Raines/@comment-37915141-20190429130547/@comment-37915141-20190510204915

"He told her of a time that he killed, his girlfriend Celia. That was certainly personal and painful for him." Yes, but that killing isn't so shameful for him so it's different in that way. Perhaps, a bit easier to talk about because at that moment it was the right thing to do while the things he did while he was loyal to Gaius was most probably not.

Anyway, I guess it's just occupational hazard that for me the definition of a lie is strictly "an intentionally false statement" so it's centered around said words and not actions. Personally, I would call not telling things omissions or hiding information. I understand while some would consider omitting something from a statement a 'lie' because it's meant to be deceiving (e.g. If my grandma asks whether I drank and I saw "Yeah, water." while I've been throwing back hella shots between water breaks, I get that some would say I lied to her, even though my statement was completely accurate. I recognize that this isn't what I should say, it was only an example.) But I can't wrap my head around how you can lie when you're not saying anything.

I'll extend my definition to yours for now. Things Adrian said about killing (excluding Celia's case for now) in the book are:

- "Yes. I have. [...] But not recently. I don't. Not anymore." when MC asked whether he ever killed anyone (chapter 2).

- "That was the first time, anyway. Before it became routine." if MC asks what's it like to kill anyone in the Ball train diamond scene (chapter 8), also describing his first killing.

So he didn't hide the fact that he has killed a lot before. He said it became routine.

In Marcel's library (chapter 9) Adrian "gently [closed] the book in [MC's] hands" and said "That's enough" when MC got the "campaign of bloo--" part. So yea, he tried to hide some of the details (though I doubt that the book goes in-depth but that doesn't mean he couldn't tell some of it himself) of his killings with Gaius. And you think you lied when he didn't say anything further. (Still struggling with that concept, I call it not being upfront instead of lying, and I understand why one would do that so I'm not mad at him or anything. But say he lied.)

What do you think he should've done? How much should he have shared? In the middle of the library during a party.

Also, in chapter 14 while MC, Adrian, and Kamilah are heading to the cabin this is what happens if you ask about their Maker:

Adrian and Kamilah look at each other uneasily.

Adrian: That's... not a subject I like to go into.

[...] ''Adrian hesitates. Kamilah glances over at him, stepping forward a little.''

Kamilah: Adrian and I had the same Maker. [She and Adrian go into describing Gaius, I excluded this part because my comment is already too long.]

MC: You guys don't seem thrilled about him.

Adrian: Yes, well, that part of my life is over now. I try not to dwell on it.

Kamilah: You have to understand, MC. Who Adrian and I are now is not who we always were. We did things in our past... terrible things. Things that would horrify you if you learned about them.

Adrian: Some secrets are best left in the dark.

Now, in your opinion, did Adrian lie because he only said that he had killed and it was routine and nothing further? Would you say Kamilah also lied because she didn't elaborate or saying that they did terrible things is enough to consider her being truthful? Had Adrian said something similar to MC as Kamilah would you say he didn't lie or are they both at fault here?

I'm just curious about what you think. Even if I go by your definition Kamilah here seems honest while Adrian seemingly agrees but doesn't explicitly say anything so what does that mean? He didn't dispute it but also didn't add much to it.